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   Re: [xml-dev] RE: SGML On The Web

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"Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote:

|>| in order to apply various tools to it (like CSS and scripting) 
|> IOW, in order to command Do This And Then Do That, more um effectively.
| You can belittle it like that if you like, 

It isn't belittling to suggest that there is more than casual empiricism

| but I'd suggest that in the process they develop a much firmer grasp of 
| document and information structures.  

I wish that were true.  But to date, grasp of document and information
structures is not a requirement for "success" in web development.  

|> IMHO, the developers who think in terms of documents are a vanishingly
|> small minority.  For most of them, the word 'document' figures in
|> their working lexicon only as the prefix on '.write()'.
| Perhaps, but I'm afraid I can say very similar things about most XML
| development

I have to say, I didn't expect any better.  It was just about inevitable,
given the way XML was "sold" to the public.  (cue Len's standard rant:-)) 

|>| You may not be fond of CSS and scripting, but the process does force 
|>| Web developers to think about what they're doing and why. 
|> Does this explain px-fontsizing fliegendreck and "javascript:" URLs?
| No - it explains the developers who argue against those things on a
| regular basis. 

To what effect, though?  Preaching to choirs isn't particularly educative.

| It still might not meet your visions of document nirvana, but you might 
| try visiting: http://alistapart.com/index.html

Well, from "/nucss2.css" :

  .orangebox {
      color: #000;
      border:solid black 2px;


  .fourhundred {
  .fivehundred {
  .fifty {
  .fiftybot {

I guess it doesn't meet my visions ;-)
| I can't say that everyone cares to think as hard as these folks, but
| there definitely is brain activity in the Web development community.

If you insist.

|> Virtue may be its own reward, but that isn't the apppropriate banality. 
|> More like: no silk purses from sows' ears.
| If you don't like the processors out there, I'd suggest writing one.

Okay.  Would I have to support Javascript?  How much CSS?  Why? 

| Mozilla's already gone pretty well beyond Tag Soup processing IMHO, and
| Opera seems to be heading a similar route.  That other browser, well,
| there's not much we can do about that one.

The real question is why Mozilla, for example, continues to support Tag
Soup.  The answer to that is the key to the gestalt of the web.  IMHO.


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