OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help



   RE: [xml-dev] Microsoft on XML

[ Lists Home | Date Index | Thread Index ]

You're right.  I should be more sensitive than I have.  I think I'm
still mad about being flamed by several members on my very first post
here (4 days? it seems a lot longer!). Now that I realize it, I'll make
a conscious effort to get over it.

And second, when I ask things that are XML related and specific to .NET
(which is what I am currently working in so that's what I ask), I
typically get answers from the same people and get email about
non-Microsoft alternatives and why I want to try those.  (appreciated
email, with very valid reasons for non-Microsoft products, by the way.
I like knowing all sides.)  .NET is so new that education should be a
huge part of the equation for success.  I want Microsoft to add more
technical people helping on forums, not just put out marketing fluff
about XML, but actually educate people by showing  examples that help
people learn how to do something XML in .NET.  I'd like people to end up
knowing what their alternatives are and how well they are implemented.
And if there are deviations from standards or problems with any product,
Microsoft or non-Microsoft, xml-dev has the right people listening here
to make it known and to push for changes.

Third, I did over exaggerate about a LOT of people here staying away
from .NET.  But it still seems like this forum has more bias than other
xml (non-Microsoft) forums.  Perhaps their hesitation is justified, at
least because of past Microsoft sins, or maybe because they have an
insider's view of where Microsoft is headed.  I don't know.  I know
until this year, I stayed away from Microsoft in favor of Cold Fusion.
Once I looked into ASP and compared it to Cold Fusion, after that I
didn't want to know anything more about ASP until this year when I
evaluated the .NET products and decided they made sense for me.  Many
people probably haven't had the time to do that evaluation yet and are
still judging Microsoft on their past products.  

Anyway, I've learned a lot these past 4 days and hope some of what I've
done has benefited other members.  I'll try harder to get an 'A' this
next week on my report card for "playing well with others".     

Pam Ammond
Empowering You!

website: http://www.empoweringyou.com 
Please check out the "Wow! Look At Windows XP" book I wrote at

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Gushee [mailto:mgushee@havenrock.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:48 AM
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Microsoft on XML

On 14 Nov 2002 at 0:15, Empowering You wrote:

> I apologize again for my mistake in posting the info.  However, I 
> don't totally agree with the implications of your statement below.
> >I doubt there is anyone XML-DEV who isn't aware of how much support 
> >Microsoft and the rest of the software industry has given XML or how 
> >widely it is utilized and deployed.
> I don't know about that.  They probably know that Microsoft is on the 
> standards boards, but I think many people don't have a clue how much 
> if any of the XML standards Microsoft has actually implemented in 
> their products or if they are implemented properly or are providing 
> value.  I think a LOT of people on this XML-DEV have tried HARD not to

> look at anything Microsoft does.  And wouldn't touch .NET products 
> with a 10 foot pole, not even to find out if they are any good.

I think you've been on this list about 4 days, and you should relax and 
observe a bit more before making judgments about a LOT of members of 
the list. And I'm afraid my self-characterization as being in the 
'rabid anti-Microsoft camp' may have helped give you that impression. 
That was tongue-in-cheek: although I mostly develop on Linux and try 
not to use MS products more than I have to, I have never viewed 
technology as a religion; it's just tools, and I choose the ones I 
believe are best. Nor do I really deliberately avoid .NET, in spite of 
my (again tongue-in-cheek) remark that I did: there's probably much of 
value in it, but there are way too many things to learn, and my 
priorities lie elsewhere. And I suspect that, like me, the majority of 
the non-Microsoft developers on the list are just that: non-Microsoft, 
not anti-Microsoft.

In any case, my take on what's appropriate: objective, technical 
information on Microsoft's XML technology is as welcome on this list as 
any other technical information. *Opinions* about Microsoft technology, 
pro or con, are also welcome if they are well-reasoned and especially 
if they are fresh.

Finally, I think your enthusiasm is wonderful; it would be more 
wonderful if tempered with a bit more sensitivity to the knowledge and 
interests of the other members of the list.

I'm nobody in particular, but I've been on this list for a few months, 
so take that for what it's worth.

[P.S. Did you notice that the person you were responding to is a senior 
 developer at Microsoft? He and one or two other Microsoft staff are  
 regulars on this list, and I think most people pay attention to what 
 they have to say.]

Matt Gushee

The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>

The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/

To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>


News | XML in Industry | Calendar | XML Registry
Marketplace | Resources | MyXML.org | Sponsors | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2001 XML.org. This site is hosted by OASIS