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   Re: [xml-dev] OASIS/W3C (was XPointer REC)

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On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 07:30:32AM -0800, todd glassey wrote:
> No Simon - I am saying that the integrity of the standards process is
> paramount to creating ongoing standards that are accepted - look at many of
> the IETF's working groups - they produce draft and rfc after rfc only to
> have them go nowhere - and this is a failing of the WG process and the
> concept of public vetting.

Sometimes if a specification goes nowhere, it's precisely *because* the
public feedback said there was insufficient interest.  There are examples
of this both at the IETF and at W3C.  If we knew that everythign we wrote
would be widely adopted and would be correct and useful to everyone first
time, there would be no need for public input at all!

> I personally see OASIS as a potentially huge contributor in the longer run
> way beyond what it has done to date and so I was concerned that it as an
> organization would allow anyone to refer to things that were in a state of
> flux or not publicly published as standards yet.

If it happened that one of the three XPointer documents in question
referred to anything at all produced by OASIS, this comment may have some
merit.  We do try to avoid referencing drafts from W3C specifications,
regardless of who publishes the draft, and we clearly cannot reference
something that has not been published at all!  If OASIS publishes
something as a public specification, it's up to other organizations,
*not* OASIS, to decide whether they will allow normative references to
those specifications.  For eaxample, ISO may or may not choose to give
OASIS accreditation as a standards organization of sufficient standing
that an ISO specification can have a normative reference to an OASIS
document.  I don't know if they have done that or not, the point is
that it would be up to ISO.  That's the nature of publishing something
in public: you lose some control over who uses it and how.

The W3C process requires that every published document go thruogh a
number of stages of open public review, and further requires that 
every single comment on those documents be addresed.  We can't, of
course, promoise to make everyone happy, but we do take every comment
seriously, and a document cannot be published as a W3C Recommendation
until the Dierctor of the W3C is satisfied that the Working Group
involved did in fact address every comment.

> And that is what I feel that this W3C action of
> citing an unreleased document is not appropriate.

This is a clear and demonstrably false accusation, as far as I can tell:

XPointer element scheme [1], XPointer Framework [2], and XPointer
xmlns() Scheme [3] refer to the following documents normatively:

1,2   Infoset [W3C, public],
1,2,3 RFC 2119 [IETF, public]
2     RFC 2279 [IETF, public]
2     RFC 2396 [IETF, public]
2     RFC 2732 [IETF, public]
2     RFC 3023 [IETF, public]
1,2,3 XML2e [W3C, public]
1,2,3 XML Namespaces [W3C, publuic]
1,2   XML Schema Part I [W3C, public]
3     Xpointer Franework [W3C, public]

and non-normative references to:
2     HTML 4.01 [W3C, public]
2     IRIs (draft} [IETF< public]
2     RDF [W3C, public]
2     SOAP 1.2 [W3C, public]
2     XLink [W3C, public]
2     XPointer xmlns scheme [W3C, public]
2,3   XPointer xpointer scheme [W3C, public]

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr-element/
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr-framework/
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr-xmlns/

As you can see, and as you can verify by looking at the published,
public documents, there are no references to either (1) OASIS
documents, or (2) non-public documents.

Todd, please either withdraw your accusations or explain them with
exact and precise examples, and also explain why you did not send
comments to W3C about these documents when they were Proposed

As far as I can tell, a documented and very public process has been
followed very carefully, and the hard work of the XML Linking Working
Group over a period of several years has culminated in the publication of
a set of specifications that we hope will be useful to the Web and to
the XML community at large.



XML Activity Lead, W3C

Liam Quin, W3C XML Activity Lead, liam@w3.org, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Ankh's list of IRC clients: http://www.valinor.sorcery.net/clients/


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