OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

 


 

   RE: [xml-dev] Can A Web Site Be Reliably Defended Against DoS Attacks?

[ Lists Home | Date Index | Thread Index ]
  • To: <rjm@zenucom.com>,<xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
  • Subject: RE: [xml-dev] Can A Web Site Be Reliably Defended Against DoS Attacks?
  • From: "Chris Wilper" <cwilper@cs.cornell.edu>
  • Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 02:48:39 -0500
  • Thread-index: AcPsS1wxpZWseE7HTcWzR2Md53mEcwAMLqgN
  • Thread-topic: [xml-dev] Can A Web Site Be Reliably Defended Against DoS Attacks?

Title: RE: [xml-dev] Can A Web Site Be Reliably Defended Against DoS Attacks?

> a box at the perimeter simply becomes the target.

err...many boxes[1].  But yeah, it's still an arms race.

- Chris

[1] In anycast, multiple boxes share an IP, and the one that is most reachable is the one the packets are sent to.  In the context of DDoS, you are basically setting up a large number of (topologically distributed) traffic sinks, which is exactly what several of the root DNS servers have done.

-----Original Message-----
From:   Rick Marshall [mailto:rjm@zenucom.com]
Sent:   Thu 2/5/2004 7:50 PM
To:     xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Cc:    
Subject:        RE: [xml-dev] Can A Web Site Be Reliably Defended Against DoS Attacks?
layers on layers...

a box at the perimeter simply becomes the target.

this is the same problem as trying to stop junk snail mail. if you've
got a letterbox, you'll get it.

i'm not talking about spam here - although it's largely the same
problem. if you've got a publicly accessible service, you can't stop the
public accessing it.... and if they abuse it - spam, DoS (and frineds
DDoS etc) all you can do is try to limit the abuse.

that's simply because you can't tell the friendlies until you look at
the content.

now if you could tell what's coming before it got here, that would be
good.

rick

On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 09:03, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:
> Thanks Chris.  That is certainly interesting as well
> s the other research he is doing.  In discussing the
> DDoS challenge with engineers here, I hear similar
> proposals (that is, as much as I can determine from
> the short description of 'anycast') where a box
> at the perimeter shields the rest of the network.
> If he has a generalized solution, that sounds
> like a money maker.
>
> I would think these issues would be of some concern
> to an industry obsessed with web services.  Currently,
> we keep them in the Intranet and are very careful to
> assess any kind of service that is on the Internet
> with regards to criticality.  We can do that.  I
> have to wonder about industries that have some
> wide-eyed vision of 'seamlessness' and 'just in time'.
> It seems like driving ahead of the headlights.
>
> len
>
>
> From: Chris Wilper [mailto:cwilper@cs.cornell.edu]
>
> Maybe something on the horizon from Paul Francis (the NAT guy):
>
> ". . . The IP Internet was simply not designed to repel this kind of attack.
> We are looking at an architecture for an anycast-based DDoS perimeter than
> can be incrementally deployed at the edge of the network.  In this
> architecture, IP anycast is used to force packets to travel through the
> boxes
> that constitute the perimeter, thus protecting servers from direct attack.
> We believe that this architecture can be extended to provide DDoS protection
> to all Internet users."
> http://www.cs.cornell.edu/People/francis/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
> initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
>
> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
>


-----------------------------------------------------------------
The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>

The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/

To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>







 

News | XML in Industry | Calendar | XML Registry
Marketplace | Resources | MyXML.org | Sponsors | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2001 XML.org. This site is hosted by OASIS