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   Re: [xml-dev] Re: Re: Where does the "nothing left but toolkits"myth com

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  • To: Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@yahoo.com>, xml-dev@lists.xml.org
  • Subject: Re: [xml-dev] Re: Re: Where does the "nothing left but toolkits"myth come from?
  • From: Kurt Cagle <kurt.cagle@gmail.com>
  • Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:45:46 -0800
  • In-reply-to: <20050207094343.76111.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com>
  • References: <20050207094343.76111.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com>
  • User-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913)


I'm still trying to get the hang of this new-fangled e-mail thang.

-- Kurt

Dimitre Novatchev wrote:
Hi Kurt,

It seems that you send the reply only to me, while, obviously, you ment to
send it to everyone. Or am I wrong?


--- Kurt Cagle <kurt.cagle@gmail.com> wrote:

One of the things I'm unsure about in this thread is the degree to which

a toolkit and an IDE mesh. I, like Dmitre, work heavily with several 
IDEs, including Stylus, Oxygen and XSelerator, and I too would be remiss

in saying that I have trouble when I'm forced back into routine text 
mode because those tools aren't handy. Having said that, are these IDEs 
toolkits? To me, a toolkit is a generator that completely abstracts out 
the generation of the code from the presentation of that code - for 
instance, by using diagrams to represent specific elements and their 
connection points, then letting those diagrams act as proxies in 
generating the code. A web services toolkit would let you create a UML 
instance as listbox entries and text fields, generate the corresponding 
WSDL and SOAP proxies, and provide the appropriate code-gen wrappers. 
While I would be perfectly comfortable doing that for web services, I 
would be MUCH more skittish about giving the system that level of 
control for the generation of XSLT, as I think a lot of the power of 
that language comes in the ability to recognize pattern abstractions 
that lie outside of the scope of what an IDE can promise.

-- Kurt

Dimitre Novatchev wrote"

"Rich Salz" <rsalz@datapower.com> wrote in message

The point that hand-authored XML may be a small percentage of the
volume but it is more important as assets in the typical system is a
very interesting one that I'll have to think about.

Don't forget to include other XML "languages" such as XSLT.

For the last three years I have been using a nice XSLT IDE to write
code. Without the XSelerator I wouldn't have written probably half of

As the technology matures we're having a growing number of other very
XSLT IDEs around -- the one in Visual Studio 2005, Stylus Studio,
..., etc.

With this tendency in mind I predict that in the nearest future
any serious XSLT development that is not based on the use of an XSLT
will be close to zero.

Dimitre Novatchev.

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Dimitre Novatchev.
http://fxsl.sourceforge.net/ -- the home of FXSL

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