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   RE: [xml-dev] The Best Technologies Don't Win

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Le vendredi 07 juillet 2006 à 12:47 -0500, Bullard, Claude L (Len) a
écrit :
>  From: Eric van der Vlist [mailto:vdv@dyomedea.com] 
> >So what? The Web doesn't belong to the W3C.
> The decisions about standards for the web do or at least have. 

But since when do Web developers follow these standards? How many web
sites are (X)HTML conform? How many vendors support CSS2? The situation
could seem to be slowly improving but more or less formal groups like
the WHAT WG could (for the best or for the worse) still decrease the
influence of the W3C.

> > >That being said, I agree that W3C XML Schema is dominant in the crowd
> > of "XML enterprise developers" but that's a
> > > relatively small community compared to the Web community.
> But one that buys platform tools.   I suspect that 'enterprisy' meme is
> a rather calculated tactic by some developers who resent that they
> aren't getting enough attention for their choices.  It is a cry of pain
> but from a self-inflicted wound.  In fact, enterprise designs are
> thriving.  One wishes they didn't have to use so much bloatware, but
> this is phase created by earlier decisions.  Again, swapping energy for
> time.

I don't know if we live in the same planet but we do not seem to surf on
the same Web. Mine is dominated by PHP developers who do not care about
enterprise applications memes...

> >> XML Schema dominates the tool stacks and that group of developers is
> by far larger than the users of RELAX.
> >Sure. My point was that a much more larger group do not use any schema
> at all, which also means that the outcome is still
> >open.
> If they don't use schemas, how do they vote?  The decision is closed for
> now as much as any decision in a dynamic environment is ever closed.

They do vote because they are using other techniques to validate their
documents. They will vote again when schema languages will really start
to enter into the basic Web X.Y technology stack. BTW, the fact that PHP
has no decent support for W3C XML Schema lets me hope that many of them
might choose RELAX NG!

> >Anyway, I am completely lost in this discussion. I fail to see the
> relation between 80% of your previous mail and the
> > mail to which it was supposed to answer and in the remaining 20% I see
> a majority of rather arbitrary assertions...
> You don't see it?  Hmm.  Maybe that is the point.  You can't.  You
> aren't a schema user.  

Are you kidding?

I spend 80% of the time I do consulting dealing with schemas and 90% of
my customers belong to the enterprise crowd that you describe and use
W3C XML Schema. 

I do much more day to day work with W3C XML Schema than with RELAX NG
and that's why I care. Maybe I shouldn't since my customers pay me to
deal with the horrors of W3C XML Schema but when I see that I could save
75% of my time if they were using RELAX NG I do care.

But these are different communities. My customers are not representative
of the Web and the Web has still to choose a schema language. 

GPG-PGP: 2A528005
Have you ever thought about unit testing XSLT templates?
Eric van der Vlist       http://xmlfr.org            http://dyomedea.com
(ISO) RELAX NG   ISBN:0-596-00421-4 http://oreilly.com/catalog/relax
(W3C) XML Schema ISBN:0-596-00252-1 http://oreilly.com/catalog/xmlschema

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