XML-DEV list: was [RE: [xml-dev] convert dom4j.Document to net.sf.saxon.

[peter murray-rust <pm286@cam.ac.uk>]

At 07:53 27/09/2006, Michael Kay wrote:
> > One thing that peaves me to no end at the moment is that
> > nobody on xml-dev seems to actually know anything about doing
> > xml development anymore.
>
>They know a lot about it, they just don't like to talk about it, because
>there are too many people who take the conversation off in unpredictable
>directions...
>
Fully agreed.

I have only been reading this list for ca 3 months. I left in ca 
2000-1. Henry and I ran it for 3 years with an extremely focussed 
membership. There were many technical discussions and several 
extended philosophical ones. I "moderated" the list - but only by 
posting occasional Moderatorials - there was no technical chopper. In 
that time there were no flame wars, no wibblers, no trolls, no spam. 
As you know we developed SAX, and laid the foundations for much else 
including  XML1.0. We tried to get simple schemas off the ground but 
were overtaken by the W3C.

I read one or two other XML-niche lists and they are very focussed 
and very helpful. They have an effective guru or BDFL - that makes 
all the difference.

I sometimes regret having handed over the list to OASIS - it was not 
my idea but the suggestion came from someone I respected and I 
thought it seemed good at the time. The handover was technically 
extremely fraught -it took months and eventually I had better things 
to do at the time. A new BDFL did not arise.

I have seen two issues here (CLAX and XLink) be discussed sensibly 
and nearly get off the ground. With a bit of  leadership a la DavidM 
I think they could. I cannot do this myself.

My suggestion is that some one - somehow - takes on the role of 
moderating the list and focusses the discussion. In the "gold old 
days" we would not have had 40 emails with some pointless joke about 
US politics. Or much of the rest. The moderator should set some 
guidelines and try to stick to them. It will not be easy at first, 
but it will work if sufficient effort is put in. Wibblers can be told 
gently that the discussion needs focus - there are known methods for 
dealing with trolls.

XML-DEV was a meritocracy in those days - your voice was related to 
your contribution - it could be code, tutorials, advocacy, 
specifications, projects, etc. These work on many of the lists.

I think there is a real role for XML-DEV as there are many general 
issues. BUT I would suggest that 1-2 are selected that are actually 
tractable and that the communal expertise of the list - which is huge 
- can actually be focussed on making something happen rather than discussion.

But it can't be me!

P.


>Michael Kay
>http://www.saxonica.com/
>
>
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Peter Murray-Rust
Unilever Centre for Molecular Sciences Informatics
University of Cambridge,
Lensfield Road,  Cambridge CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-763069