Re: Fwd: [xml-dev] Not using mixed content? Then don't use XML

[Fraser Goffin <goffinf@gmail.com>]

Still managed not to include by response to Simon's assertion that XSD is 'harmful'. But here it is anyway (better late than never) :-

Simon, I'm sure based on your other comments that this is a somewhat
rhetorical question (at least I would very much hope so).

There are lots of reason why a specification of the data contract can
be considered to be a useful artefact at any/all stages of a
development life cycle.

There are lots of reasons why that is insufficient to fully explain
the semantic, behavioural and even the complete set of data
constraints that might apply.

The balance of course is in using XSDs for the things that they are
good at and other things for areas where they are not. Dismissing them
out of hand, seems foolhardy ?

I certainly find some utility for them (and I think the data/document
distinction *does * play a part) and I agree with an earlier poster
(Timothy Cook) that XSD 1.1 has expanded the range of useful use cases
(albeit all of those things were already possible using schematron or
such like).

Let's be careful not to fall into the narrow arguments of the past
around XSD and at least accept that those professional developers
among us who do find some use aren't completely deluded.

Regards

Fraser

On 8 April 2013 16:11, Fraser Goffin <goffinf@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I understand the tactic and I don't have a problem with that (use it myself plenty of times). just want to see a balanced debate.

And no, I didn't mean not include the whole list, but thanks for respecting that possible intention (hence re-inserting with this reply)

Fraser

On 7 April 2013 22:22, Liam R E Quin <liam@w3.org> wrote:

On Sun, 2013-04-07 at 19:42 +0100, Fraser Goffin wrote:
> > I prefer, however, to ask, "under what circumstances are XML Schema
> > beneficial, and when can Schemas (of any kind) sensibly be used as a
> > design aid at or near the start of a project? What factors lead to
> > success and what factors lead to problems?"
>
> I'm sure based on your other comments that this is a somewhat
> rhetorical question (at least I would very much hope so).

It's a statement: I prefer the question as I formulated it, because it
emphasises the positive.

[...]

> Let's be careful not to fall into the narrow arguments of the past
> around XSD and at least accept that those professional developers
> among us who do find some use aren't completely deluded.

+1

Simon is being argumentative and provocative in order to elicit
responses, and, whilst there's a grain of truth in what he says, it's
far from the whole story. :-)

[not sure if you'd intended this to be off-list but I kept it that way]

Liam

--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
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