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Re: [xml-dev] [OT] Re: [xml-dev] Lessons learned from the XML experiment

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:02 AM, David Sheets <kosmo.zb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Tei <oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Possible relevant, but mostly funny  (apt for friday)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-can-i-pass-the-string-null-through-wsdl-soap-from-actionscript-3-to-a-co
>> >
>> >
>> > Oh that is precious. Thanks! A classic XML WTF.
>> Could you please explain how this is a problem with XML? I don't
>> understand.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "a problem with XML." The problem is manifold,
> and starts with the XSD data typing system and the way the PSVI subordinates
> data typing to the original text. It compounds as SOAP/WSDL builds on top of
> PSVI to wire in assumptions of text interpretations in code. The true fault
> is with the developer who coded the tool with a careless fencepost that
> actually circumvented the datatyping system altogether, but that's the
> entire point of this "Lessons learned" thread: when you make things so
> complex that few developers can understand and get them right (and I do mean
> few; I have experience to back that up) then you can hardly always look to
> shift blame on the developer when they get it wrong.

I need to transmit a binary blob. Should I use null-terminated strings?

>> > And it's also an important reminder of the sort of thing that happens
>> > when
>> > data typing becomes more important than text in XML.
>> Could you please explain how this is a problem with overly strict data
>> typing being more important than interpreting text in XML? I don't
>> understand.
> http://adtmag.com/articles/2002/12/01/xml-class-warfare.aspx
> http://adtmag.com/articles/2003/01/31/the-worry-about-program-wizards.aspx
> And overall, since I'm wearying of this week's revival of perma-threads from
> 2000-2003, I'll finish with my own version of serenity, which is the
> opposite of Timothy Cook's
> http://adtmag.com/articles/2002/09/30/serenity-through-markup.aspx

I read these articles and they don't seem to address why overly strict
data typing is the cause of this particular problem.

Is it because the recipient is ignoring the data type of "string" and
instead deciding to treat certain strings as special values?

David Sheets

> --
> Uche Ogbuji                                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
> Founding Partner, Zepheira                  http://zepheira.com
> Author, Ndewo, Colorado                     http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/
> Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal      http://wearekin.org
> Editor & Contributor, TNB
> http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/
> http://copia.ogbuji.net    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
> http://twitter.com/uogbuji

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