Re: [xml-dev] RE: Seduced by Markup

[Alexander Johannesen <alexander.johannesen@gmail.com>]

Kurt wrote:
> I believe this has a direct corollary in both music and textual markup.

True that, and I'll push it even further to say that all human
abstract modelling and manifestations of such is riddled with more
misunderstandings than there are humans available to us.

The last few years I've grown especially tired of how we all go about
software development, in the sense that every person or company out
there are pushing *their* model of understanding forth as if they
somehow are correct. Drives me mental! The age of trying to agree is
truly over, if it ever existed; I have a vague notion that we, as
primitive creatures, before languages and semiotics, could agree on
simple things, like; good == smile, bad == frown, where the simplistic
language could cater to a kind of "understanding" and agreement
between participants in such a simple contextual model, where that
understanding wasn't rooted in personal preference, but in live or
die! Good times, good times ...

Funny you should mention papers and thesis (or feces, as a friend of
mine calls them) where the principle of Occam's razor might well be in
there, somewhere in their models, but not in the expression of said
models. There's science, and then there's science communication, just
like there's music, and then there's musical communication, just like
there's data, and then there's the expression of that data.


Cheers,

Alex



On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Kurt Cagle <kurt.cagle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Shifting gears a bit (though not much) I'd argue that understanding
> notational complexity is typically a sign that you have also mastered the
> rudiments of the conceptual complexities of a given piece of markup, whether
> that markup is XML, musical notation or mathematical notation. That doesn't
> mean that writing such complex content applies the same level of
> understanding - I've seen any number of mathematical papers, doctoral theses
> and the like that are overly complex because the author has not fully
> grokked the conceptual underpinnings of the piece, and so resorts to
> formalism to express himself rather than trying to keep the content as
> simple as possible while still providing the minimal necessary notation. I
> believe this has a direct corollary in both music and textual markup.
>
> Kurt Cagle
> Invited Expert, XForms Working Group, W3C
> Managing Editor, XMLToday.org
> kurt.cagle@gmail.com
> 443-837-8725
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Alexander Johannesen
> <alexander.johannesen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sean McGrath <sean.mcgrath@propylon.com> wrote:
>> > Yes indeed, but why is it that so many people never learn to read the
>> > notation?
>>
>> All metaphors and allegories aside about the complexity of notation,
>> I've always thought the main reason a lot of people haven't learned to
>> read musical notation ... is that they've never had the *need* to
>> learn to read the notation? Unless you want to be a professional
>> musician, and even then in some genres, notation isn't needed. Even an
>> amateur like me can enjoy the crap out of Bach's mass in B without so
>> much as knowing the signature of the music or how quivers are notated
>> or the tempo is noted.
>>
>> In fact, it has to be said that markup is hence so much more readable
>> than musical notation, for nothing more than the linguistic hints and
>> semantics of element names and attributes; at least they are spelled
>> out in a less ambiguous way than, say, every programming language out
>> there where the tiniest semiotic sign is paramount to the
>> interpretation of the code.
>>
>> Actually, I only have one gripe about XML markup specifically, and
>> that is the lack of commonly used HTML entities out of the box; it has
>> deterred a many developer away from "something written for the web,
>> but isn't even HTML compatible?!"
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> --
>>  Project Wrangler, SOA, Info Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
>>  http://shelter.nu/blog  |  google.com/+AlexanderJohannesen
>>  http://xsiteable.org  |  http://www.linkedin.com/in/shelterit
>>
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-- 
 Project Wrangler, SOA, Info Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
 http://shelter.nu/blog  |  google.com/+AlexanderJohannesen
 http://xsiteable.org  |  http://www.linkedin.com/in/shelterit