Re: [xml-dev] Does the XML syntax have an underlying data model?

[Jim Melton <jim.melton@oracle.com>]

Steve,

You've asked an interesting question, with an interesting example.  
Obviously, what I say in this message is my opinion and mine alone.  I 
have no idea whatsoever whether anybody at Oracle (or anywhere else) 
agrees.

First, the meaning of "publicly" needs clarification.  OSI was developed 
"publicly", in the sense that it was done in an open, voluntary 
standards activity in which every nation on earth was eligible to 
participate and to send delegates.  On the other hand, it was developed 
in an organization about which most people are unaware, that has a 
reputation for being somewhat cryptic and obscure, and in which it would 
have been impossible for thousands (never mind millions!) of people to 
participate directly.

I find value in the 7-layer OSI model, although it was not "successful" 
in the same manner that, say, ASCII was.  Its usefulness lies in it 
providing a common model that can be used in comparing and contrasting 
other network models, and in making it somewhat easier to develop 
translations between other network models than it would otherwise be.  I 
would characterize this "success" as more academic than practical, but 
others might feel the opposite way.  (Full disclosure: I worked for 
Digital Equipment Corporation during the OSI standardization years, so I 
had a vested interest in the battles.  It was the fierce fight between 
DEC and IBM that caused OSI to stall, giving the IETF an opportunity to 
put forward a "good enough" network design that was ultimately wholly 
successful.)

I am a career standardizer, and my sympathies are definitely tilted 
towards "more standardization is better".  That belief is based on the 
recognition that, if people and organizations weren't constantly having 
to invent new languages/protocols/encodings/etc., they could spend their 
energy competing on more important factors such as reliability, 
efficiency, performance, supportability, aesthetics, etc.

Thanks for the discusison!
   Jim

On 4/17/2016 6:31 AM, Steve Newcomb wrote:
> Rick Jelliffe:
>
> > XML was not a planting exercise, but a pruning exercise.
>
> Michael Key:
>
> > XML (like so many technologies) was successful because it was done 
> quickly, and that taking longer to do it better would probably have 
> ensured an early death.
>
> Private interests may find it politically useful to characterize 
> demodularization as "pruning", but in engineering terms, it's still 
> demodularization, and it's not necessarily in the public interest.
>
> A more basic question is: Would it be good if information interchange 
> standards were designed publicly, for world economic performance?  Or 
> not?  Is the question academic?  Or is it simply practical?  It 
> depends one's perspective.  (One's perspective being subject to change!)
>
> For example, consider a topic that is perhaps less fraught than XML 
> Namespaces, at least within the XML community.  Was the 7-layer OSI 
> model in the public interest, or not?  Would we be better off today if 
> private interests had adopted it, or had been required to adopt it?  
> If, for whatever reasons, private interests had adopted OSI, would we 
> now enjoy more options in world communications, and a larger arena 
> more suitable both for innovation *and* regulation?
>
> More generally (and with thanks to Eric Raymond), does the bazaar 
> really serve its own interests by neglecting its cathedral? 
> Personally, I think not.
>
> Steve Newcomb
>
>
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--
========================================================================
Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL)     Phone: +1.801.942.0144
  Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32 and W3C XML Query WG    Fax : +1.801.942.3345
Oracle Corporation        Oracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com
1930 Viscounti Drive      Alternate email: jim dot melton at acm dot org
Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA  Personal email: SheltieJim at xmission dot com
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=  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions      =
=  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =
=  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =
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