xml-dev - Re: OASIS and XML-DEV

[Peter Murray-Rust <peter@ursus.demon.co.uk>]

At 12:24 AM 4/22/00 +0100, Rich Anderson wrote:
>> FWIW, even though it's been silenced by criticism (easy to do, not too
>> constructive imho), there is a temporary mail list at eGroups which is
>> available for use:

Since - presumably - this is aimed at me :-), my only concern is that the
idea was not suggested and (briefly) discussed before doing it. I
appreciate that the intention was constructive and the idea seems to have a
lot to offer.

The mechanism was not clear to people - should messages be only directed to
eGroups, to both, the duplicate volume of mail (which worries people who
have to pay for it), to whom should replies be addressed, what was to be
archived, etc. whether there was an intention to  make it permanent or
temporary, etc.

I continue to make clear that I am not trying to force personal opinions
through on the list - even though occasionally I state them, but to
abstract the consensus of the list members. If the list members wish to
take any concerted action, then I think it's critical that it is aired on
the list before it's put in practice. Put that's a personal view. If most
people wish to carry out experimentation, fine :-)

I have summarised the technical issues raised and - as far as possible -
summarised the private mail I have received (ca. 10 -15 mails in all). I
feel very positive about the ideas suggested and think that some of them
will happen.

I will try to write at length tomorrow summarising the political and
organisation issues (I'm busy today). I have been in the "SGML/XML"
community for ca 5 years and naturally have that as a background - that is
also where OASIS comes from. This background has, in part, been responsible
for the real sense of community on the list and it is something that I
value - but I do not wish to sway members.


>> http://www.egroups.com/group/xml-dev-temp
>
>I think using eGroups is a very good idea Dave, not everybody is against it.
>It is a very fast service with lots of features. ( just today the IBM guy
>posted an announcement to xml-dev and the egroup dev-xml, it arrived on
>xml-dev about 3 hours _after_ xmldev the eGROUP  )
>
>However, there are two other established xml lists people should also
>consider moving to if they are looking  for a) more reliability, b) more
>programmer oriented and less theory:
>
>http://www.egroups.com/group/dev-xml (600+ members)
>http://www.egroups.com/group/vbxml ( more of a VB Focus - 700+ members )
>
XML is obviously too large for a single list to manage everything and there
will be a spectrum. XML-DEV seems to fill a useful role at present - how
much of that is historical and how much is related to current business
members can decide for themselves. XML-DEV only has relevance if it serves
a real need.

My own feeling is that if OASIS continue to be involved with XML-DEV then
they should seriously investigate eGroups.

We now have named individuals at OASIS - Karl and Norm - and I would hope
that we can interact with them courteously and constructively over the next
few days.

I try very hard *not* to influence list opinion unduly - the current
discussion has however been:
	(a) about a crisis situation
	(b) about the list itself (as well as its content).
I have seen virtual communities flourish and disintegrate before and my
main concern was to limit the amount and variety of actions (NOT
suggestions) to try to preserve list coherence. Crossposting to
xml-dev-temp could have led to discussions about XML-DEV being held solely
on xml-dev-temp and not being posted to this list. That was all. If it came
over as dictatorial it was because urgent action seemed required.

If anyone feels I am biased, please don't hesitate to point this out. I try
to do the following:
	(a) coordinate and develop list mechanics that are useful and workable
	(b) occasionally summarise discussions and suggest ways forward
	(c) make newcomers to the list feel welcome
	(d) gently moderate the spectrum of discussion
	(e) [the most difficult and perhaps controversial]. capture some of the
history and real-life activities of the "XML community" to create a greater
sense of community. The link was OASIS intended to do this. It has not, so
far, worked out. I shall try to summarise the pluses and minuses tomorrow. 

	I hope this is useful

	P.


	P.

>Personally I'd recommended joining all three, but thats just my view as I
>dont find reading multiple lists a problem ( they have digest modes ) :)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Rich
>
>
>
>
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