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   RE: [xml-dev] XPath/XSLT 2.0 concerns

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My point is that when we post to xml-dev, we get feedback, and some sense
that there is discussion going on.  If you aren't a W3C member, then the
only way that you know you've been heard is if there is feedback in public
forums, which in many cases doesn't occur.  This is why I say that we are
"not as welcome" to participate.  Participation ideally is two-way, there is
a conversation that goes on.  I've read the IG lists before when I was part
of a member company, the difference between those lists, and the publicly
available comments lists is very different.  For all the feedback I've
gotten from comments lists, I might as well have sent my bits to /dev/null.

FYI, I do make my comments on the W3C lists when I have the time, and I know
that they are supposed to listen to them.

If the W3C wants the public to be more participatory, it needs to make MORE
provisions for public access.  If you, as a member of the W3C want that to
happen, then please, by all means, get your AC rep to talk to them about it.
You as a member have more influence that I in that matter.


Engineering is what happens when science and
mathematics meet politics.  Products are what
happens when all three meet reality.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dare Obasanjo [mailto:dareo@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:21 PM
To: keith@woc.org; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: RE: [xml-dev] XPath/XSLT 2.0 concerns

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith W. Boone [mailto:keith@woc.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:54 AM
> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
> Dare said:
> > If people spent as much times giving feedback to W3C
> working groups as
> > they spent angrily and impotently railing on XML-DEV maybe some
> > progress would be made.
> But quite honestly, many of us are not W3C members [we don't
> have 50K to pony up for membership], and non-members are
> clearly not as welcome to participate in W3C processes

W3C working groups have lists available for comment which they are
MANDATED to consider regardless of who submits their comments. Quite
frankly, I've seen some working groups react better to comments by
external developers than from comments by Microsoft standards reps. I
guess this stems from some attempt not to be "bullied" by the Evil

It is actually quite irksome to watch major issues we've been raising
for months get repeatedly shot down only to finally be taken seriously
when someone else either within or outside the working group brings them

Thus I have self serving interest in encouraging more constructive
criticism of W3C working groups by XML-DEVers.

> Also, there are folks here who are WG members, and who do
> listen.  So the railing is not totally useless.

As Henry Thompson is fond of stating, no W3C working group member is
bound to read XML-DEV but they are all bound to consider comments to the
official W3C comments lists.

Like I said, people like to complain. Unfortunately armchair critics
don't change the world.

The meek shall inherit the Earth....if that's all right with the rest of

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