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   Re: [xml-dev] [SUMMARY #1] Why is there little usage of XML on the 'visi

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Jirka Kosek said:
> juanrgonzaleza@canonicalscience.com wrote:
>> I was not refering to usage of CSS in a SVG file but that SVG _is_
>> presentational and so harmful as font was. <font> was eliminated from
>> HTML last specs, there is no reason for repeataing errors of the past
>> with online spreading of p-MathML, SVG, or XSL-FO.
> You might consider HTML (without font and other elements) as a semantic
> and non-presentational language. But if you compare HTML with more
> semantic oriented formats for documents like DocBook or TEI, you will
> consider HTML as being very presentational oriented. It depends on where
>  you draw border line and what level of semantic you expect from your
> dataformat.

How can <p> <blockquote> or <h3> be content oriented when compared with
presentational old HTML (<font>, <b>, <i>, and company) but presentational
when compared with DocBook or TEI?

I can understand that something like <div class="chapter"> is less content
oriented than a specific <chapter> tag in other -more complex- language
but <p>, <blockquote>, or <h3> continue being not presentational, no?

> There is nothing wrong on serving SVG or MathML content to users as long
>  as you are interested in displaying of information only. If you want
> "full access" to information for your users, you can always provide
> alternative content in a more semantically rich format. But there should

Hum, from the MathML FAQ [http://www.w3.org/Math/mathml-faq.html]:

Backwards compatibility - Why has MathML not reused TeX/LaTeX, or the SGML
DTDs ISO 12083 or AAP Math?

TeX and LaTeX are very widely used for encoding mathematical expressions.
However, they encode only the surface presentation of an expression, and
do not encode either semantic information or structural information. One
of the WG goals is to provide a presentation mechanism that not only has
the expressive capabilities of TeX, but also has enough information in it
so that the presentation is:

* accessible to the visually impaired;
* capable of doing a good job of linebreaking expressions, since the
author can not know the window size and font size in which the MathML
should render.

In addition to a presentation interface, it is necessary to provide
mechanisms for encoding mathematical semantic content, and controlling the
interface between the embedded MathML fragment and the browser processing
the containing page. We also considered that it was preferable for a
document with embedded mathematical formulas to require only one type of
parser rather than having a completely different type of encoding for the
mathematics level.

SGML DTDs are oriented towards entire documents governed by one DTD rather
than math fragments within Web pages. Apart from the work done on the
development of a 'Semantic Maths DTD fragment' within the ISO 12083
working group (not part of the standard), existing SGML DTDs are
presentation-oriented and lack support for content encoding.

The irony of this is that in real life websites (ASCIIMathML, Distler's
MUSINGS, Living Review on relativity, NAG...) are using p-MathML code is
more presentational still that ISO-12083 math (was rejected to reusing in
a XML format).

Juan R.



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