Re: [xml-dev] Testing XML don't use xUnit

[Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Andrew Welch <andrew.j.welch@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yay, more...
>
>> Absolutely true. Devs are kings. That doesn't mean that everything
>> they are given to do will be done competently. It means that
>> everything that they are given to do will be done to the limit of
>> their competence and sometimes their competence and the techniques
>> they are used to doesn't stretch that far. Like for example here
>> http://ravimohan.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/learning-from-sudoku-solvers.html
>
> Sorry that's a lot to read - what's the tldr; summary?
>
> It does mention xslt and sudoku solvers, so I won't pass up the
> opportunity of posting the link (again :) to my own:
>
> http://andrewjwelch.com/code/xslt/sudoku/sudoku-solver.html
>
> : )
>
>
>> Some are so cocky they think everything is autodidactable.
>
> I don't know what that means, nor does google apparently.
>
>
>>> Developers 'private testing'? There's nothing private about the tests
>>> you deliver with the code.
>>
>> Private testing means whatever the developer did to verify his
>> program. It doesn't matter whether he publishes it or not.
>
>
> What sort of verifying and publishing do you mean?
>
> Agile dev work requires that you write testable code and the tests
> that go with it - it all must be delivered into the build.  The build
> will repeatedly run those tests, as will all the other devs before
> they deliver code.
>
>
>>> Regarding regressions, Agile is all about
>>> avoiding regressions and confident refactoring, all based on the tests
>>> written by the developers.
>>>
>>
>> which won't run if they are not designed to be robust enough to be
>> repeatable and are unlikely to be repeatable unless they are planned
>> and if they are planned why on earth wouldn't you document that.
>
> By definition they have to be repeatable because they are run as part
> of the continuous build repeatedly thousands of times.
>
>
>>>  Read up on continuous build.  The codebase
>>> is continuously tested - there is no 'regression pack' any more, its
>>> all done as part of the build.
>>>
>>
>> You're getting carried away with buzzwords.
>>  http://sqa.stackexchange.com/questions/643/fitting-regression-testing-in-a-agile-scrum-development-cycle
>
> What is that link telling me?   (continuous build is no more of a
> buzzword than 'xml' these days)
>
>
>>> Despite the numerous variations in how people 'do agile', that area
>>> has been consistent since the beginning.
>>>
>>
>> No it hasn't but never mind.
>
> Sigh, it has.  The Martin Fowler article is good read on this:
> http://martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html
>
>
>> There is a very simple reason for the success of TDD. It is not an
>> inherently superior development methodology but it has one crucial
>> feature that no other methodology has. It's the only methodology that
>> has managed to trick developers into doing testing
>
> !  That made me smile.
>
> <this_will_sound_patronising>You should get some experience of Agile
> and modern dev work in general, before continuing this thread</...
>

Something I meant to slip in yesterday. My client absolutely loves
Kernow..... kudos for writing it. Respect.