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   Re: [xml-dev] XML-appropriate editing data structures

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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 02:47:32 +0200
Henrik Martensson <henrik.martensson@bostream.nu> wrote:
> You yourself pointed out that the markup gets trashed, so obviously you
> can't handle typing text. At least not without turning off the features
> that are provided to give you, among other things, the typing speed you
> say you want.

I pointed out that with an "editor" that thinks it knows what I want to
do, inserting nonsense in the way of my work, I have problems.

You and I are not using the same thing.  From earlier in your post, you
prefer alt-shift-cokebottle-meta-infinity sequences to typing markup, and
although you say you do not pause at boundaries, if you must "change focus
to an element window", obviously you do.

As for misfeatures that are supposed to give me the typing speed I want, I
say again that you haven't bothered to listen.  I don't want them, and
they give me no speed advantage.

> Are you really arguing that because XML is text based, markup must be
> handled character by character? That does not hold. PDF, RTF and MIF
> markup are also text. So is Postscript for that matter. If XML markup
> should be handled character by character because it is text, it follows
> that those other text formats should be edited in text editors too.

What I am *saying* is that, since it is text, I ought to be able to type
it as text and treat it as text if I wish.

If you wish to never see the awful ugliness of the markup part of
text-based markup, that's fine.  Go use your surreal XML editors, and I'll
use my pragmatic ones.

> Perhaps you should try connecting your fingers with your brain when you
> write sometimes. You might be surprised at the improvement, XML editor
> or no XML editor.

The only appropriate reply to public rudeness: Bite my ass.

> I find it odd that you are prepared to learn several DTDs by heart, and
> yet balk at learning two or three control sequences so that you can
> improve your efficiency when using an XML editor, and get rid of most
> tagging mistakes as a bonus.

I don't make tagging mistakes, if the editor will get out of my face.  But
this is apparently something that you're not really particularly willing
to listen to, is it?

Oddly enough *not* everyone in the world uses the same editing style.

> So, you trash half the markup by forgetting end tags. Since you

How much?

> sometimes trash a start tag too, that evens out to a bit more than half
> the time, at least when you are in the flow, i.e. when you are doing

How often?

> your best writing, and everything goes smoothly.

Are you on really interesting drugs or something?

I typically have perhaps one error in a hundred characters, or less, and
the chance of it being markup is low.

If you regularly mistype half of your input, then your preference for an
editor with control issues is made perfectly clear.

> Do not those trashed tags interrupt the flow?


> The programmer wouldn't know more about the document. However, the
> programmer is expected to know more about editing XML, and about GUIs,
> and about human-computer interaction.

Now *there's* an interesting assertion, indeed.  HCI tends toward dumbing
things down and refusing to admit the possibility of expertise.

> The purpose of XML is to enable as much automation as possible. Using a
> text editor to write XML documents is missing the point of using XML in
> the first place!


> Why don't you do the same thing: try one of the "straightjacket" editors
> for awhile. I recommend XMetaL. I think there is a 30 day demo

Why do you assume I haven't done so?  Your incredible arrogance in this
thread has gone all the way beyond irritating into *plonk*

> available. It is very different from what you are used to, so you
> probably won't like it at first, but give it two or three weeks anyway.

I used it longer than that; it was a chosen tool at work for three months.
 Fortunately, the requirement was dropped (about the same time I was
switching platforms, to one unsupported by XMetal).

> I think you would grow to like the editing features. 

No.  I didn't.  And I didn't make up my mind on short notice.  Odd, that
someone should bother, when she holds strong opinions.  I don't have any
use for that style of editor, despite your further expectations, and I now
have enough experience to actually know what I want.

Amelia A. Lewis                    amyzing {at} talsever.com
"...Tests are a gift.  And great tests are a great gift.  To fail the
test is a misfortune.  But to refuse the test is to refuse the gift,
and something worse, more irrevocable, than misfortune."
        -- Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan 
           [Lois McMasters Bujold, "Shards of Honor"]


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