Re: [xml-dev] ISO/IEC 19757-3:2016 Schematron second edition?

[Eliot Kimber <ekimber@contrext.com>]

Those of us who use Oxygen to work on DITA documents depend very heavily
on the Schematrons that validate the large number of DITA rules that can't
be codified in a DTD.

Cheers,

E.

----
Eliot Kimber, Owner
Contrext, LLC
http://contrext.com




On 5/19/16, 12:07 PM, "Tommie Usdin" <btusdin@mulberrytech.com> wrote:

>I hadnšt thought about it that way but I agree with Simon: Schematron
>(and the logic/mechanism that drives it) have enormous potential.
>
>Schematron is seriously cool - and (at least in the tiny pond I swim in)
>growing in importance.
>
>Rick: I doubt that you hear this often so Išll say it agin: well done!
>
>‹ Tommie
>
>
>> On May 19, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com>
>>wrote:
>> 
>> Seconded!
>> 
>> In the long run, I think Schematron may well be the XML project's
>>greatest technical legacy to the world.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/19/2016 8:08 AM, Dave Pawson wrote:
>>> Thanks Rick for
>>> a) coming up with Schematron - simple when explained well,
>>> horrendously complex until then.
>>> b) the work you've put in to get it to ISO.
>>> 
>>> It's slowly disappearing into the woodwork, as is XML, just a nice
>>> tool to use when needed.
>>> IMHO a vote of confidence. So bloody useful it should not be allowed
>>>to die.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> Dave P
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 19 May 2016 at 12:53, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au>
>>>wrote:
>>>> The 2006 edition of schematron came out in 2006, but it was largely
>>>>based on
>>>> Schematron circa 2003.
>>>> 
>>>> In 2007 I put out a request for suggestions to the public
>>>> 
>>>>http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/post/what_else_should_schematron_ha.html
>>>> 
>>>> In 2008 I submitted my ideas to the ISO group. You can hear the audio
>>>> through the link. I requested more comments from the Schematron mail
>>>>list
>>>> etc.
>>>> http://www.eccnet.com/pipermail/schematron/2008-October/000061.html
>>>> I had implemented most of the changes in the Schematron.com version.
>>>> 
>>>> In 2010 I made a draft revision, and asked the community for comments.
>>>> 
>>>>http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/04/public-draft-of-next-generatio.htm
>>>>l
>>>> 
>>>> The Working Group submitted it to international voting. It was
>>>>accepted with
>>>> conditional revisions by Japan on a particular explanatory issue
>>>>relating to
>>>> predicate logic.
>>>> 
>>>> At this stage, it stalled. [[I found it impossible to find anyone in
>>>> Australia familiar enough with predicate logic syntax to get the
>>>>parts that
>>>> Japan was concerned about right: I finally found a prof at UNSW who
>>>>would
>>>> help, but I had conked out: it took multiple years to recover from my
>>>> pericardial surgeries. My hard disk and my new backup drive failed,
>>>>so I
>>>> lost my sources: Murphy's law. Access to Schematron.com fell into a
>>>>black
>>>> hole as an ISP changed (no drama, but no resolution still) and I
>>>>needed to
>>>> concentrate on rebuilding my life: I think I worked pretty hard for
>>>>the
>>>> first decade of Schematron  from 1999 on Schematron, especially
>>>>trying to
>>>> list on my blog various techniques that otherwise someone might
>>>>patent,
>>>> more work than I could do in the second decade.  (I have worked on
>>>>using
>>>> Schematron for three very large multi-year projects though: so it is
>>>>still
>>>> in my life.)]]
>>>> 
>>>> I did move the code to google.com but this needs to get moved to
>>>>gitlab.
>>>> 
>>>> ISO standards are renewed every ten years. So the version that ISO has
>>>> adopted as the 2016 standard is the 2010 revision. Hurray! I am often
>>>> surprised where it is used, and thAt it really has a good life of its
>>>>own
>>>> without any push by me. For example, procurement : PEPPOL BIS v1-
>>>>optional ‹
>>>> PEPPOL | Pan-European Public Procurement Online.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally it is out: and a very big thanks to Murata-san and the WG for
>>>>taking
>>>> over and seeing it through  when I could not. And a bigger apology
>>>>that I
>>>> could not complete the last steps of the Editor's job as committed.
>>>> 
>>>> If you are looking at other extensions that build on Schematron: the
>>>>two
>>>> biggies are UBL code lists and W3CQuickFix.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>> On 14/05/2016 1:25 AM, "Tony Graham" <tgraham@antenna.co.jp> wrote:
>>>>> I found out today that a second edition of ISO Schematron was
>>>>>published
>>>>> in January: https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/24049
>>>>> 
>>>>>  - Is there a publicly available version of the standard, as there is
>>>>>    for the first edition [1]?
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Buying it from ISO comes out at about EUR 4 per page, but if you
>>>>>    shop around, you can get it for nearly twice that [2].
>>>>> 
>>>>>  - Are the schemas for Schematron and SVRL publicly available?
>>>>> 
>>>>>    I'm told that SVRL now allows rich and foreign elements and
>>>>>    attributes in failed-assert and successful-report, but that's
>>>>>    all that I know.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  - Are there updated XSLT stylesheets available for working with
>>>>>    second-edition Schematron?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tony Graham.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Senior Architect
>>>>> XML Division
>>>>> Antenna House, Inc.
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Skerries, Ireland
>>>>> tgraham@antenna.co.jp
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] 
>>>>>http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html
>>>>> [2] http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030219663
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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