Re: [xml-dev] ISO/IEC 19757-3:2016 Schematron second edition?

[Lauren Wood <lauren@textuality.com>]

Schematron is also used in healthcare (HL7's CDA document format is
XML) for validity checks that XML Schema doesn't support.

Lauren

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Eliot Kimber <ekimber@contrext.com> wrote:
> Those of us who use Oxygen to work on DITA documents depend very heavily
> on the Schematrons that validate the large number of DITA rules that can't
> be codified in a DTD.
>
> Cheers,
>
> E.
>
> ----
> Eliot Kimber, Owner
> Contrext, LLC
> http://contrext.com
>
>
>
>
> On 5/19/16, 12:07 PM, "Tommie Usdin" <btusdin@mulberrytech.com> wrote:
>
>>I hadn¹t thought about it that way but I agree with Simon: Schematron
>>(and the logic/mechanism that drives it) have enormous potential.
>>
>>Schematron is seriously cool - and (at least in the tiny pond I swim in)
>>growing in importance.
>>
>>Rick: I doubt that you hear this often so I¹ll say it agin: well done!
>>
>>‹ Tommie
>>
>>
>>> On May 19, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> Seconded!
>>>
>>> In the long run, I think Schematron may well be the XML project's
>>>greatest technical legacy to the world.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/19/2016 8:08 AM, Dave Pawson wrote:
>>>> Thanks Rick for
>>>> a) coming up with Schematron - simple when explained well,
>>>> horrendously complex until then.
>>>> b) the work you've put in to get it to ISO.
>>>>
>>>> It's slowly disappearing into the woodwork, as is XML, just a nice
>>>> tool to use when needed.
>>>> IMHO a vote of confidence. So bloody useful it should not be allowed
>>>>to die.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Dave P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 May 2016 at 12:53, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> The 2006 edition of schematron came out in 2006, but it was largely
>>>>>based on
>>>>> Schematron circa 2003.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2007 I put out a request for suggestions to the public
>>>>>
>>>>>http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/post/what_else_should_schematron_ha.html
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2008 I submitted my ideas to the ISO group. You can hear the audio
>>>>> through the link. I requested more comments from the Schematron mail
>>>>>list
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> http://www.eccnet.com/pipermail/schematron/2008-October/000061.html
>>>>> I had implemented most of the changes in the Schematron.com version.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2010 I made a draft revision, and asked the community for comments.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/04/public-draft-of-next-generatio.htm
>>>>>l
>>>>>
>>>>> The Working Group submitted it to international voting. It was
>>>>>accepted with
>>>>> conditional revisions by Japan on a particular explanatory issue
>>>>>relating to
>>>>> predicate logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this stage, it stalled. [[I found it impossible to find anyone in
>>>>> Australia familiar enough with predicate logic syntax to get the
>>>>>parts that
>>>>> Japan was concerned about right: I finally found a prof at UNSW who
>>>>>would
>>>>> help, but I had conked out: it took multiple years to recover from my
>>>>> pericardial surgeries. My hard disk and my new backup drive failed,
>>>>>so I
>>>>> lost my sources: Murphy's law. Access to Schematron.com fell into a
>>>>>black
>>>>> hole as an ISP changed (no drama, but no resolution still) and I
>>>>>needed to
>>>>> concentrate on rebuilding my life: I think I worked pretty hard for
>>>>>the
>>>>> first decade of Schematron  from 1999 on Schematron, especially
>>>>>trying to
>>>>> list on my blog various techniques that otherwise someone might
>>>>>patent,
>>>>> more work than I could do in the second decade.  (I have worked on
>>>>>using
>>>>> Schematron for three very large multi-year projects though: so it is
>>>>>still
>>>>> in my life.)]]
>>>>>
>>>>> I did move the code to google.com but this needs to get moved to
>>>>>gitlab.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISO standards are renewed every ten years. So the version that ISO has
>>>>> adopted as the 2016 standard is the 2010 revision. Hurray! I am often
>>>>> surprised where it is used, and thAt it really has a good life of its
>>>>>own
>>>>> without any push by me. For example, procurement : PEPPOL BIS v1-
>>>>>optional ‹
>>>>> PEPPOL | Pan-European Public Procurement Online.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally it is out: and a very big thanks to Murata-san and the WG for
>>>>>taking
>>>>> over and seeing it through  when I could not. And a bigger apology
>>>>>that I
>>>>> could not complete the last steps of the Editor's job as committed.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are looking at other extensions that build on Schematron: the
>>>>>two
>>>>> biggies are UBL code lists and W3CQuickFix.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Rick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14/05/2016 1:25 AM, "Tony Graham" <tgraham@antenna.co.jp> wrote:
>>>>>> I found out today that a second edition of ISO Schematron was
>>>>>>published
>>>>>> in January: https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/24049
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - Is there a publicly available version of the standard, as there is
>>>>>>    for the first edition [1]?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Buying it from ISO comes out at about EUR 4 per page, but if you
>>>>>>    shop around, you can get it for nearly twice that [2].
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - Are the schemas for Schematron and SVRL publicly available?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I'm told that SVRL now allows rich and foreign elements and
>>>>>>    attributes in failed-assert and successful-report, but that's
>>>>>>    all that I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - Are there updated XSLT stylesheets available for working with
>>>>>>    second-edition Schematron?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony Graham.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Senior Architect
>>>>>> XML Division
>>>>>> Antenna House, Inc.
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Skerries, Ireland
>>>>>> tgraham@antenna.co.jp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html
>>>>>> [2] http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030219663
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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